The Alternate Rules Topic:

[Tashiji]

Heretofore, we've only really spoken about one-on-one battles. While that is fine and dandy, one comparison that is constantly brought up with this PVP mode is to Pokemon. We've been mentioning that similarity constantly, and it got me to thinking... why can't we have Pokemon-style team battles? It would add some freshness to PVP, and allow us to use some of the more neglected in-game rules. I've thought this over, and here is my preliminary setup. Obviously, suggestions are always welcome.

Rules:

Health Regen: Off

Similarly to Pokemon, this will necessitate some sort of rotation after fights. Also, it will stop one Stealth Elf from slaughtering the entirety of the other team.

Number of characters allowed per team: Eight, or points-based.

An eight-member team allows each participant to pick one of each element; basically, use their squad from the main game as a cohesive unit.

A points-based layout would go like this.

Max usable points: 42

Cost-per-character:

KAOS!! Division -- 9

Spell Punk Division -- 5

Chompy Division -- 3

42 seems an odd number, but those familiar with Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy will recognize it as the answer to the ultimate question. It also balances the total number of characters so that a person can select four Kaos, eight Spell Punk, or thirteen Chompy; mixing and matching as they please, but not exceeding 42 points. This gives Chompy characters more of a reason to exist in real tournaments, rather than just their own kiddy pool.

... And that's it for the rules. Just those two ensure competitive balance, in my opinion. Whatever team is completely defeated first loses.

Now, does anyone else have an alternate set of rules for PVP? One-on-one battles are nice, but that doesn't mean we can't mix things up a bit. If it's not by any of the rules we already talk about, how do you play? We want to hear your ideas. There are many ways to PVP in Skylanders!

[doubletrouble]

Agree with the 8-member team format, I was actually thinking about this earlier today myself, and agree with the no health regeneration rule. As for the point system though, I'm not exactly against it, but I think 42 points is too low, or the cost per character needs to be lowered. Right now, the only way to get a 8 character team is to play 7 Chompy characters and one character that is from either the Spell Punk or Chompy division. I'd rather not see a point system, and instead allow each player to have a team of 8, with a max of 1 or 2 characters from the Kaos division on their team and a max of 3-4 Spell Punk characters allowed on the team. This would also still allow Chompy characters to be used, as there would need to be at least 2 included on each team.

[Tashiji]

That's another way of doing it, definitely. We need to limit the participation of Kaos characters, or every battle is just going to be run the same way. Stealth Elf, Cynder, Ignitor, Terrafin, Slam Bam, Drobot, and Voodood versus... Stealth Elf, Cynder, Ignitor, Bash, Slam Bam, Drobot, and Double Trouble. Only a couple of elements even have an alternate choice. In most, the best is so clear-cut it's not even funny.

I like your idea, but I think something of a compromise should be reached as well. Although it should definitely be impossible to have eight members of the Kaos division, it should also be allowable for others to sacrifice slots on their team for more powerful characters if they feel that this is their best chance at winning.

Full freedom of choice is just going to yield the same team versus the same team. No different than Fox vs. Falco being every single fight in Smash Bros. Melee. However, too little choice takes all the fun out of it. There's got to be a compromise that encourages fairness, because someone who just picks their favorites is going to get stomped by the teams listed above.

Either way, I'm glad we're seeing eye to eye about the Pokemon comparison. This could be done in divisions as well, really. Kaos team versus Kaos team, etc.; there's nothing about team battle rules that necessitates not using divisions, I suppose. I do think that, since most people have a team in story mode, it might be fun to try to use that dynamic in PVP.

[doubletrouble]

After doing some math, I'm proposing the following change to the point system in order to keep balance while also allowing a little more flexibility:

42 points total, max 8 characters per team

Kaos: 9 points each

Spell Punk: 5 points each

Chompy: 3 points each

This continues to prevent people from using more than four Kaos division characters on their team, while also allowing them to put one Spell Punk character or 2 Chompy characters in their team. Also allows a person to play a team of 8 Spell Punk characters if they want to.

[Tashiji]

That's actually much more balanced! Good thinking.

I like this math better, thank you! A five-member team of four Kaos and one Spell Punk allows enough variety and substance to keep things interesting, and if a person desires, they can sub their one Spell Punk for two Chompy and still be within the point limit. ... Or, they can just go crazy, and use thirteen Chompy characters, in hopes of winning through sheer numbers alone. It's a nice system that allows flexibility without ensuring the same exact battle every time.

We do need to iron out the tiers just a little bit before it'll work optimally, but even now, it's possible to have fun battles with these rules.

Edit: Modified the original post to contain DT's math; definitely more balanced this way.

Also, if anyone else has new PVP rules they'd like to discuss, please feel free to post! Skylanders PVP is shaping up to actually have a lot of depth, and a lot of different ways it can be played.

[thierrytng]

Jan 27, 2012 16:37:31 GMT -6 Tashiji said:

42 seems an odd number, but those familiar with Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy will recognize it as the answer to the ultimate question.

I'd never have guessed that the ultimate question would be Skylander-related though... ;D

On a side note, why not just use 1 Skylander from each division, play 1 round per Skylander and then both players move on to the next Skylander? Winner'd be the one who won the most battles, and it'd both prevent people from overplaying a single powerful character, as well as adding the tactical challenge of when to deploy which character.

[Tashiji]

Me neither, but the universe works in mysterious ways!

[thierrytng]

Jan 29, 2012 13:16:17 GMT -6 Tashiji said:

Me neither, but the universe works in mysterious ways!

True indeed.

[Yaggleberry Finn]

I don't have any strategic input to add at this time, I just want to say that I love this idea! We've tried playing Pokemon style before, but we didn't have a clear way of building fair teams. I like this a lot and would love to give it a try. The boy is playing right now, I'll go see if he's interested